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Does jamais mean always or never in this context?


Does “ne même plus” mean “no more” or “no more than”?Why does this sentence only use a “ne”?What does a sentence starting with “pas” mean?Depending on whether to say “vraiment pas” or “pas vraiment”, does the meaning of this sentence change?Does “ne pas” and “ne pas que” have the same meaning in this context? Can you use both?(ne .. aucune .. que) Can “ne” be paired with “que” here? Can “ne” be paired with multiple words?













2















My understanding of French is extremely limited so I am not sure who is correct in this situation. A Twitter user contends that the French writer Maurice Druon once said "Tradition is nothing but a progress which has succeeded".



As best I can find, Druon's original quote in French is "Une tradition, ce n'est jamais qu'un progrès qui a réussi".



So far my basic efforts indicate the Druon quote actually means the opposite of what the person on Twitter contends, yet at the same time I found one resource indicating that sometimes "ce n'est jamais" means "is always".



So in the context of this specific quote, is tradition always, or never, a progress which has succeeded? If it does actually mean what the Twitter user contends, what contextual clues would guide me in this instance?










share|improve this question







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    2















    My understanding of French is extremely limited so I am not sure who is correct in this situation. A Twitter user contends that the French writer Maurice Druon once said "Tradition is nothing but a progress which has succeeded".



    As best I can find, Druon's original quote in French is "Une tradition, ce n'est jamais qu'un progrès qui a réussi".



    So far my basic efforts indicate the Druon quote actually means the opposite of what the person on Twitter contends, yet at the same time I found one resource indicating that sometimes "ce n'est jamais" means "is always".



    So in the context of this specific quote, is tradition always, or never, a progress which has succeeded? If it does actually mean what the Twitter user contends, what contextual clues would guide me in this instance?










    share|improve this question







    New contributor




    derrgill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






















      2












      2








      2








      My understanding of French is extremely limited so I am not sure who is correct in this situation. A Twitter user contends that the French writer Maurice Druon once said "Tradition is nothing but a progress which has succeeded".



      As best I can find, Druon's original quote in French is "Une tradition, ce n'est jamais qu'un progrès qui a réussi".



      So far my basic efforts indicate the Druon quote actually means the opposite of what the person on Twitter contends, yet at the same time I found one resource indicating that sometimes "ce n'est jamais" means "is always".



      So in the context of this specific quote, is tradition always, or never, a progress which has succeeded? If it does actually mean what the Twitter user contends, what contextual clues would guide me in this instance?










      share|improve this question







      New contributor




      derrgill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.












      My understanding of French is extremely limited so I am not sure who is correct in this situation. A Twitter user contends that the French writer Maurice Druon once said "Tradition is nothing but a progress which has succeeded".



      As best I can find, Druon's original quote in French is "Une tradition, ce n'est jamais qu'un progrès qui a réussi".



      So far my basic efforts indicate the Druon quote actually means the opposite of what the person on Twitter contends, yet at the same time I found one resource indicating that sometimes "ce n'est jamais" means "is always".



      So in the context of this specific quote, is tradition always, or never, a progress which has succeeded? If it does actually mean what the Twitter user contends, what contextual clues would guide me in this instance?







      négation double-négation






      share|improve this question







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      derrgill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|improve this question







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      asked 1 hour ago









      derrgillderrgill

      111




      111




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      New contributor





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      Check out our Code of Conduct.




















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          1














          Grammar-wise (strictly speaking):



          In the construction "ce n'est jamais qu'un(e) X", the main focus is on the restrictive "ne ... que ..."; the structure is not about the negation "ne ... jamais ...". This fact alone may well lead you to the right interpretation; This "jamais" is not seen as a negation, but rather as "ever", as in:




          Si jamais la couleur du chapeau que vous choisissez ne vous convient finalement pas, ...



          Voilà bien le meilleur café que j'aie jamais bu.





          Translation-wise (practically speaking):



          That being said, as far as translation into English is concerned, you could easily be forgiven for applying the meaning "never" to the "jamais" in "ce n'est jamais qu'un(e) X":




          It's never anything but a ...



          It's only ever a ...




          This construction can be naturally translated in two different ways, using either "ever" or "never", but they both boil down to the same thing.






          share|improve this answer
































            0














            This use of "jamais" appears to be neither "always" nor "never" but to be equivalent to "seulement" (only). I infer that from a translation in a Robert-Collins dictionary: "Ce n'est jamais qu'un enfant" (He is only a child). So, "nothing but" (rien que) is a good translation. The form is generally "SUBJECT_ne_être_que_COMPLÉMENT".



            • La pomme n'est jamais qu'un fruit commun.

            • Ce n'est jamais que la pluie qui crée des inondations.

            • Un arbre n'est jamais qu'une herbe qui s'est endurcie et qui a grandi.





            share|improve this answer






























              0














              "Une tradition, ce n'est jamais qu'un progrès qui a réussi" is translated in "A tradition is nothing more than a progress which has succeeded".






              share|improve this answer























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                3 Answers
                3






                active

                oldest

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                3 Answers
                3






                active

                oldest

                votes









                active

                oldest

                votes






                active

                oldest

                votes









                1














                Grammar-wise (strictly speaking):



                In the construction "ce n'est jamais qu'un(e) X", the main focus is on the restrictive "ne ... que ..."; the structure is not about the negation "ne ... jamais ...". This fact alone may well lead you to the right interpretation; This "jamais" is not seen as a negation, but rather as "ever", as in:




                Si jamais la couleur du chapeau que vous choisissez ne vous convient finalement pas, ...



                Voilà bien le meilleur café que j'aie jamais bu.





                Translation-wise (practically speaking):



                That being said, as far as translation into English is concerned, you could easily be forgiven for applying the meaning "never" to the "jamais" in "ce n'est jamais qu'un(e) X":




                It's never anything but a ...



                It's only ever a ...




                This construction can be naturally translated in two different ways, using either "ever" or "never", but they both boil down to the same thing.






                share|improve this answer





























                  1














                  Grammar-wise (strictly speaking):



                  In the construction "ce n'est jamais qu'un(e) X", the main focus is on the restrictive "ne ... que ..."; the structure is not about the negation "ne ... jamais ...". This fact alone may well lead you to the right interpretation; This "jamais" is not seen as a negation, but rather as "ever", as in:




                  Si jamais la couleur du chapeau que vous choisissez ne vous convient finalement pas, ...



                  Voilà bien le meilleur café que j'aie jamais bu.





                  Translation-wise (practically speaking):



                  That being said, as far as translation into English is concerned, you could easily be forgiven for applying the meaning "never" to the "jamais" in "ce n'est jamais qu'un(e) X":




                  It's never anything but a ...



                  It's only ever a ...




                  This construction can be naturally translated in two different ways, using either "ever" or "never", but they both boil down to the same thing.






                  share|improve this answer



























                    1












                    1








                    1







                    Grammar-wise (strictly speaking):



                    In the construction "ce n'est jamais qu'un(e) X", the main focus is on the restrictive "ne ... que ..."; the structure is not about the negation "ne ... jamais ...". This fact alone may well lead you to the right interpretation; This "jamais" is not seen as a negation, but rather as "ever", as in:




                    Si jamais la couleur du chapeau que vous choisissez ne vous convient finalement pas, ...



                    Voilà bien le meilleur café que j'aie jamais bu.





                    Translation-wise (practically speaking):



                    That being said, as far as translation into English is concerned, you could easily be forgiven for applying the meaning "never" to the "jamais" in "ce n'est jamais qu'un(e) X":




                    It's never anything but a ...



                    It's only ever a ...




                    This construction can be naturally translated in two different ways, using either "ever" or "never", but they both boil down to the same thing.






                    share|improve this answer















                    Grammar-wise (strictly speaking):



                    In the construction "ce n'est jamais qu'un(e) X", the main focus is on the restrictive "ne ... que ..."; the structure is not about the negation "ne ... jamais ...". This fact alone may well lead you to the right interpretation; This "jamais" is not seen as a negation, but rather as "ever", as in:




                    Si jamais la couleur du chapeau que vous choisissez ne vous convient finalement pas, ...



                    Voilà bien le meilleur café que j'aie jamais bu.





                    Translation-wise (practically speaking):



                    That being said, as far as translation into English is concerned, you could easily be forgiven for applying the meaning "never" to the "jamais" in "ce n'est jamais qu'un(e) X":




                    It's never anything but a ...



                    It's only ever a ...




                    This construction can be naturally translated in two different ways, using either "ever" or "never", but they both boil down to the same thing.







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited 16 mins ago

























                    answered 43 mins ago









                    Con-gras-tue-les-chiensCon-gras-tue-les-chiens

                    10.7k41241




                    10.7k41241





















                        0














                        This use of "jamais" appears to be neither "always" nor "never" but to be equivalent to "seulement" (only). I infer that from a translation in a Robert-Collins dictionary: "Ce n'est jamais qu'un enfant" (He is only a child). So, "nothing but" (rien que) is a good translation. The form is generally "SUBJECT_ne_être_que_COMPLÉMENT".



                        • La pomme n'est jamais qu'un fruit commun.

                        • Ce n'est jamais que la pluie qui crée des inondations.

                        • Un arbre n'est jamais qu'une herbe qui s'est endurcie et qui a grandi.





                        share|improve this answer



























                          0














                          This use of "jamais" appears to be neither "always" nor "never" but to be equivalent to "seulement" (only). I infer that from a translation in a Robert-Collins dictionary: "Ce n'est jamais qu'un enfant" (He is only a child). So, "nothing but" (rien que) is a good translation. The form is generally "SUBJECT_ne_être_que_COMPLÉMENT".



                          • La pomme n'est jamais qu'un fruit commun.

                          • Ce n'est jamais que la pluie qui crée des inondations.

                          • Un arbre n'est jamais qu'une herbe qui s'est endurcie et qui a grandi.





                          share|improve this answer

























                            0












                            0








                            0







                            This use of "jamais" appears to be neither "always" nor "never" but to be equivalent to "seulement" (only). I infer that from a translation in a Robert-Collins dictionary: "Ce n'est jamais qu'un enfant" (He is only a child). So, "nothing but" (rien que) is a good translation. The form is generally "SUBJECT_ne_être_que_COMPLÉMENT".



                            • La pomme n'est jamais qu'un fruit commun.

                            • Ce n'est jamais que la pluie qui crée des inondations.

                            • Un arbre n'est jamais qu'une herbe qui s'est endurcie et qui a grandi.





                            share|improve this answer













                            This use of "jamais" appears to be neither "always" nor "never" but to be equivalent to "seulement" (only). I infer that from a translation in a Robert-Collins dictionary: "Ce n'est jamais qu'un enfant" (He is only a child). So, "nothing but" (rien que) is a good translation. The form is generally "SUBJECT_ne_être_que_COMPLÉMENT".



                            • La pomme n'est jamais qu'un fruit commun.

                            • Ce n'est jamais que la pluie qui crée des inondations.

                            • Un arbre n'est jamais qu'une herbe qui s'est endurcie et qui a grandi.






                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered 43 mins ago









                            LPHLPH

                            10.9k1425




                            10.9k1425





















                                0














                                "Une tradition, ce n'est jamais qu'un progrès qui a réussi" is translated in "A tradition is nothing more than a progress which has succeeded".






                                share|improve this answer



























                                  0














                                  "Une tradition, ce n'est jamais qu'un progrès qui a réussi" is translated in "A tradition is nothing more than a progress which has succeeded".






                                  share|improve this answer

























                                    0












                                    0








                                    0







                                    "Une tradition, ce n'est jamais qu'un progrès qui a réussi" is translated in "A tradition is nothing more than a progress which has succeeded".






                                    share|improve this answer













                                    "Une tradition, ce n'est jamais qu'un progrès qui a réussi" is translated in "A tradition is nothing more than a progress which has succeeded".







                                    share|improve this answer












                                    share|improve this answer



                                    share|improve this answer










                                    answered 42 mins ago









                                    ON5MF JurgenON5MF Jurgen

                                    37119




                                    37119




















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