Why aren't road bike wheels tiny? Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern) Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?Advice on aero wheelsWhy are hand-built wheels considered to be better than machine-built wheels?Does group riding negate the aero benefit of deep rim wheels?Why are wheels so important for racing?Road bike frame for offroad/cx wheelsWhy no wheels with rope instead of spokes?Where does aero wheels noise come from?What's the difference between road bike disc brake wheels /cyclosross wheels?Can it be estimated when it would actually be beneficial to increase drag in tailwind?Why do deep section front wheels get pushed around in crosswinds?

Why do people think Winterfell crypts is the safest place for women, children & old people?

lm and glm function in R

Can the van der Waals coefficients be negative in the van der Waals equation for real gases?

How to charge percentage of transaction cost?

Recursive calls to a function - why is the address of the parameter passed to it lowering with each call?

Why these surprising proportionalities of integrals involving odd zeta values?

Should man-made satellites feature an intelligent inverted "cow catcher"?

Assertions In A Mock Callout Test

Converting a text document with special format to Pandas DataFrame

How to get a single big right brace?

Are Flameskulls resistant to magical piercing damage?

Does GDPR cover the collection of data by websites that crawl the web and resell user data

Who can become a wight?

Can a Wizard take the Magic Initiate feat and select spells from the Wizard list?

Has a Nobel Peace laureate ever been accused of war crimes?

Can gravitational waves pass through a black hole?

Married in secret, can marital status in passport be changed at a later date?

Why isn't everyone flabbergasted about Bran's "gift"?

Putting Ant-Man on house arrest

Why do some non-religious people reject artificial consciousness?

How to break 信じようとしていただけかも知れない into separate parts?

Kepler's 3rd law: ratios don't fit data

Do chord progressions usually move by fifths?

How can I introduce the names of fantasy creatures to the reader?



Why aren't road bike wheels tiny?



Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?Advice on aero wheelsWhy are hand-built wheels considered to be better than machine-built wheels?Does group riding negate the aero benefit of deep rim wheels?Why are wheels so important for racing?Road bike frame for offroad/cx wheelsWhy no wheels with rope instead of spokes?Where does aero wheels noise come from?What's the difference between road bike disc brake wheels /cyclosross wheels?Can it be estimated when it would actually be beneficial to increase drag in tailwind?Why do deep section front wheels get pushed around in crosswinds?










1















My understanding is that air resistance is where most of the pedal power goes to at high speeds, and that this is a concern not least for the wheels: What you pay for in a road bike wheel is aerodynamic and/or light wheels, not so much to other losses like rolling resistance and bearings.



So if air resistance is the thing to optimize a wheel for, the wheel should be tiny. Obviously in width, but also in radius, because even shortening the length of a surface reduces boundary layer drag. Has anybody thought of this?




Postulate: The faster angular speed of a small wheel is irrelevant to air resistance: If the forward speed is given, every point on the wheel at a given fractional wheel radius has a speed compared to the ground that is independent of the wheel radius. In other words, shrinking the wheel does not speed up any point on its surface; you just get less surface. Which should be good!










share|improve this question







New contributor




user2394284 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • 552 mm wheels are probably UCI legal in road races. Fore and aft same wheels of same diametre are required though

    – gschenk
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    Uh, what is the single largest (by far) source of both weight and wind resistance for a bicycle (that's being ridden by a human)?

    – Daniel R Hicks
    4 hours ago











  • And concoct an adult-sized bike with 16-inch wheels. Take it out on a highway and ride it 50 miles. Then come back and explain why wheels should be small.

    – Daniel R Hicks
    1 hour ago















1















My understanding is that air resistance is where most of the pedal power goes to at high speeds, and that this is a concern not least for the wheels: What you pay for in a road bike wheel is aerodynamic and/or light wheels, not so much to other losses like rolling resistance and bearings.



So if air resistance is the thing to optimize a wheel for, the wheel should be tiny. Obviously in width, but also in radius, because even shortening the length of a surface reduces boundary layer drag. Has anybody thought of this?




Postulate: The faster angular speed of a small wheel is irrelevant to air resistance: If the forward speed is given, every point on the wheel at a given fractional wheel radius has a speed compared to the ground that is independent of the wheel radius. In other words, shrinking the wheel does not speed up any point on its surface; you just get less surface. Which should be good!










share|improve this question







New contributor




user2394284 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • 552 mm wheels are probably UCI legal in road races. Fore and aft same wheels of same diametre are required though

    – gschenk
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    Uh, what is the single largest (by far) source of both weight and wind resistance for a bicycle (that's being ridden by a human)?

    – Daniel R Hicks
    4 hours ago











  • And concoct an adult-sized bike with 16-inch wheels. Take it out on a highway and ride it 50 miles. Then come back and explain why wheels should be small.

    – Daniel R Hicks
    1 hour ago













1












1








1


1






My understanding is that air resistance is where most of the pedal power goes to at high speeds, and that this is a concern not least for the wheels: What you pay for in a road bike wheel is aerodynamic and/or light wheels, not so much to other losses like rolling resistance and bearings.



So if air resistance is the thing to optimize a wheel for, the wheel should be tiny. Obviously in width, but also in radius, because even shortening the length of a surface reduces boundary layer drag. Has anybody thought of this?




Postulate: The faster angular speed of a small wheel is irrelevant to air resistance: If the forward speed is given, every point on the wheel at a given fractional wheel radius has a speed compared to the ground that is independent of the wheel radius. In other words, shrinking the wheel does not speed up any point on its surface; you just get less surface. Which should be good!










share|improve this question







New contributor




user2394284 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












My understanding is that air resistance is where most of the pedal power goes to at high speeds, and that this is a concern not least for the wheels: What you pay for in a road bike wheel is aerodynamic and/or light wheels, not so much to other losses like rolling resistance and bearings.



So if air resistance is the thing to optimize a wheel for, the wheel should be tiny. Obviously in width, but also in radius, because even shortening the length of a surface reduces boundary layer drag. Has anybody thought of this?




Postulate: The faster angular speed of a small wheel is irrelevant to air resistance: If the forward speed is given, every point on the wheel at a given fractional wheel radius has a speed compared to the ground that is independent of the wheel radius. In other words, shrinking the wheel does not speed up any point on its surface; you just get less surface. Which should be good!







wheels aerodynamics






share|improve this question







New contributor




user2394284 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question







New contributor




user2394284 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question






New contributor




user2394284 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 4 hours ago









user2394284user2394284

1091




1091




New contributor




user2394284 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





user2394284 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






user2394284 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • 552 mm wheels are probably UCI legal in road races. Fore and aft same wheels of same diametre are required though

    – gschenk
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    Uh, what is the single largest (by far) source of both weight and wind resistance for a bicycle (that's being ridden by a human)?

    – Daniel R Hicks
    4 hours ago











  • And concoct an adult-sized bike with 16-inch wheels. Take it out on a highway and ride it 50 miles. Then come back and explain why wheels should be small.

    – Daniel R Hicks
    1 hour ago

















  • 552 mm wheels are probably UCI legal in road races. Fore and aft same wheels of same diametre are required though

    – gschenk
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    Uh, what is the single largest (by far) source of both weight and wind resistance for a bicycle (that's being ridden by a human)?

    – Daniel R Hicks
    4 hours ago











  • And concoct an adult-sized bike with 16-inch wheels. Take it out on a highway and ride it 50 miles. Then come back and explain why wheels should be small.

    – Daniel R Hicks
    1 hour ago
















552 mm wheels are probably UCI legal in road races. Fore and aft same wheels of same diametre are required though

– gschenk
4 hours ago





552 mm wheels are probably UCI legal in road races. Fore and aft same wheels of same diametre are required though

– gschenk
4 hours ago




1




1





Uh, what is the single largest (by far) source of both weight and wind resistance for a bicycle (that's being ridden by a human)?

– Daniel R Hicks
4 hours ago





Uh, what is the single largest (by far) source of both weight and wind resistance for a bicycle (that's being ridden by a human)?

– Daniel R Hicks
4 hours ago













And concoct an adult-sized bike with 16-inch wheels. Take it out on a highway and ride it 50 miles. Then come back and explain why wheels should be small.

– Daniel R Hicks
1 hour ago





And concoct an adult-sized bike with 16-inch wheels. Take it out on a highway and ride it 50 miles. Then come back and explain why wheels should be small.

– Daniel R Hicks
1 hour ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















1














You also have to count for stuff you can get over - that's why 29-inch wheels are so popular with the mountain bike crowd these days. They suck at cornering, and that's why they came up with 27.5's. Smaller wheel diameters are great for accelerating quicker, hence the popularity of 650C wheel sets for triathlons. Scooters have tiny wheels because they ideally are ridden on paved roads or sidewalks, and can therefore get by without hitting any major potholes or bumps. At some point, people got together and determined an ideal threshold for wheel size that would prevent accidents by their sole ability to get over stuff. That's the best explanation I've got!






share|improve this answer






























    1














    Assuming a bicycle with a conventional rider position, the rider cannot be positioned any lower because there has to be a certain amount of clearance between the cranks and the road. As wheels shrink, the frame has to extend downwards to reach the axles, so you are not really removing structure that causes drag, you are replacing it with something else.



    Smaller wheels have higher rolling resistance, at some point that become significant compared to aero drag.



    There are a host of other practical reasons, for instance:



    As the driving wheel decreases in size the gear ratios have to increase to maintain the same distance travelled for a turn of the cranks. This is why folding bikes have huge chainrings.



    Small wheels are less stable, as anyone who has ridden a Razor scooter knows.






    share|improve this answer























      Your Answer








      StackExchange.ready(function()
      var channelOptions =
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "126"
      ;
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
      createEditor();
      );

      else
      createEditor();

      );

      function createEditor()
      StackExchange.prepareEditor(
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: false,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: null,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader:
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      ,
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      );



      );






      user2394284 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function ()
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fbicycles.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f60483%2fwhy-arent-road-bike-wheels-tiny%23new-answer', 'question_page');

      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes








      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      1














      You also have to count for stuff you can get over - that's why 29-inch wheels are so popular with the mountain bike crowd these days. They suck at cornering, and that's why they came up with 27.5's. Smaller wheel diameters are great for accelerating quicker, hence the popularity of 650C wheel sets for triathlons. Scooters have tiny wheels because they ideally are ridden on paved roads or sidewalks, and can therefore get by without hitting any major potholes or bumps. At some point, people got together and determined an ideal threshold for wheel size that would prevent accidents by their sole ability to get over stuff. That's the best explanation I've got!






      share|improve this answer



























        1














        You also have to count for stuff you can get over - that's why 29-inch wheels are so popular with the mountain bike crowd these days. They suck at cornering, and that's why they came up with 27.5's. Smaller wheel diameters are great for accelerating quicker, hence the popularity of 650C wheel sets for triathlons. Scooters have tiny wheels because they ideally are ridden on paved roads or sidewalks, and can therefore get by without hitting any major potholes or bumps. At some point, people got together and determined an ideal threshold for wheel size that would prevent accidents by their sole ability to get over stuff. That's the best explanation I've got!






        share|improve this answer

























          1












          1








          1







          You also have to count for stuff you can get over - that's why 29-inch wheels are so popular with the mountain bike crowd these days. They suck at cornering, and that's why they came up with 27.5's. Smaller wheel diameters are great for accelerating quicker, hence the popularity of 650C wheel sets for triathlons. Scooters have tiny wheels because they ideally are ridden on paved roads or sidewalks, and can therefore get by without hitting any major potholes or bumps. At some point, people got together and determined an ideal threshold for wheel size that would prevent accidents by their sole ability to get over stuff. That's the best explanation I've got!






          share|improve this answer













          You also have to count for stuff you can get over - that's why 29-inch wheels are so popular with the mountain bike crowd these days. They suck at cornering, and that's why they came up with 27.5's. Smaller wheel diameters are great for accelerating quicker, hence the popularity of 650C wheel sets for triathlons. Scooters have tiny wheels because they ideally are ridden on paved roads or sidewalks, and can therefore get by without hitting any major potholes or bumps. At some point, people got together and determined an ideal threshold for wheel size that would prevent accidents by their sole ability to get over stuff. That's the best explanation I've got!







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 49 mins ago









          M. HernandezM. Hernandez

          464




          464





















              1














              Assuming a bicycle with a conventional rider position, the rider cannot be positioned any lower because there has to be a certain amount of clearance between the cranks and the road. As wheels shrink, the frame has to extend downwards to reach the axles, so you are not really removing structure that causes drag, you are replacing it with something else.



              Smaller wheels have higher rolling resistance, at some point that become significant compared to aero drag.



              There are a host of other practical reasons, for instance:



              As the driving wheel decreases in size the gear ratios have to increase to maintain the same distance travelled for a turn of the cranks. This is why folding bikes have huge chainrings.



              Small wheels are less stable, as anyone who has ridden a Razor scooter knows.






              share|improve this answer



























                1














                Assuming a bicycle with a conventional rider position, the rider cannot be positioned any lower because there has to be a certain amount of clearance between the cranks and the road. As wheels shrink, the frame has to extend downwards to reach the axles, so you are not really removing structure that causes drag, you are replacing it with something else.



                Smaller wheels have higher rolling resistance, at some point that become significant compared to aero drag.



                There are a host of other practical reasons, for instance:



                As the driving wheel decreases in size the gear ratios have to increase to maintain the same distance travelled for a turn of the cranks. This is why folding bikes have huge chainrings.



                Small wheels are less stable, as anyone who has ridden a Razor scooter knows.






                share|improve this answer

























                  1












                  1








                  1







                  Assuming a bicycle with a conventional rider position, the rider cannot be positioned any lower because there has to be a certain amount of clearance between the cranks and the road. As wheels shrink, the frame has to extend downwards to reach the axles, so you are not really removing structure that causes drag, you are replacing it with something else.



                  Smaller wheels have higher rolling resistance, at some point that become significant compared to aero drag.



                  There are a host of other practical reasons, for instance:



                  As the driving wheel decreases in size the gear ratios have to increase to maintain the same distance travelled for a turn of the cranks. This is why folding bikes have huge chainrings.



                  Small wheels are less stable, as anyone who has ridden a Razor scooter knows.






                  share|improve this answer













                  Assuming a bicycle with a conventional rider position, the rider cannot be positioned any lower because there has to be a certain amount of clearance between the cranks and the road. As wheels shrink, the frame has to extend downwards to reach the axles, so you are not really removing structure that causes drag, you are replacing it with something else.



                  Smaller wheels have higher rolling resistance, at some point that become significant compared to aero drag.



                  There are a host of other practical reasons, for instance:



                  As the driving wheel decreases in size the gear ratios have to increase to maintain the same distance travelled for a turn of the cranks. This is why folding bikes have huge chainrings.



                  Small wheels are less stable, as anyone who has ridden a Razor scooter knows.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 24 mins ago









                  Argenti ApparatusArgenti Apparatus

                  38.2k23995




                  38.2k23995




















                      user2394284 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









                      draft saved

                      draft discarded


















                      user2394284 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                      user2394284 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











                      user2394284 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Bicycles Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid


                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function ()
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fbicycles.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f60483%2fwhy-arent-road-bike-wheels-tiny%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      Dapidodigma demeter Subspecies | Notae | Tabula navigationisDapidodigmaAfrotropical Butterflies: Lycaenidae - Subtribe IolainaAmplifica

                      Constantinus Vanšenkin Nexus externi | Tabula navigationisБольшая российская энциклопедияAmplifica

                      Vas sanguineum Index Historia | Divisio | Constructio anatomica | Vasorum sanguineorum morbi (angiopathiae) | Notae | Nexus interniTabula navigationisAmplifica