How long do I have to send my income tax payment to the IRS? The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InWhat are the consequences of filing personal income tax return past the deadline of April 15th (i.e. filing late)? [US]What is the Canadian Income Tax Day?Paying Federal Income Tax without WitholdingDo I need to file a tax return on zero income in the US if I became a resident late in December?Does making credit card tax payment through service provider constitute IRS form 4868 extension request?How would IRS treat reimbursement in a later year of moving expenses?Do I have to file California tax return for worldwide income?Do I have to pay tax on my last pay check which is the first of the tax year?How can I file this year's tax return if I haven't got the refund from last year's return?Germany - Tax implications for a full-time contract in the same year of a HiWi contract
How are circuits which use complex ICs normally simulated?
Flying Bloodthirsty Lampshades
How come people say “Would of”?
Unbreakable Formation vs. Cry of the Carnarium
Adding labels to a table: columns and rows
"To split hairs" vs "To be pedantic"
How to create dashed lines/arrows in Illustrator
Limit to 0 ambiguity
How to make payment on the internet without leaving a money trail?
The difference between dialogue marks
Inflated grade on resume at previous job, might former employer tell new employer?
What does "rabbited" mean/imply in this sentence?
What is the meaning of Triage in Cybersec world?
Falsification in Math vs Science
Is there a name of the flying bionic bird?
How can I fix this gap between bookcases I made?
Is "plugging out" electronic devices an American expression?
Geography at the pixel level
How do you say "canon" as in "official for a story universe"?
Is this food a bread or a loaf?
Inversion Puzzle
How to answer pointed "are you quitting" questioning when I don't want them to suspect
Should I write numbers in words or as numerals when there are multiple next to each other?
Why is the maximum length of OpenWrt’s root password 8 characters?
How long do I have to send my income tax payment to the IRS?
The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InWhat are the consequences of filing personal income tax return past the deadline of April 15th (i.e. filing late)? [US]What is the Canadian Income Tax Day?Paying Federal Income Tax without WitholdingDo I need to file a tax return on zero income in the US if I became a resident late in December?Does making credit card tax payment through service provider constitute IRS form 4868 extension request?How would IRS treat reimbursement in a later year of moving expenses?Do I have to file California tax return for worldwide income?Do I have to pay tax on my last pay check which is the first of the tax year?How can I file this year's tax return if I haven't got the refund from last year's return?Germany - Tax implications for a full-time contract in the same year of a HiWi contract
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
If I file my income tax on April 15th and plan to pay with a check, it will take a few days for the check to be delivered. Will I face interest and penalties for those few days for the check in the mailing system?
united-states income-tax
edited 1 hour ago
Ben Voigt
3,33821518
asked 14 hours ago
daviddavid
785
add a comment |
If I file my income tax on April 15th and plan to pay with a check, it will take a few days for the check to be delivered. Will I face interest and penalties for those few days for the check in the mailing system?
united-states income-tax
edited 1 hour ago
Ben Voigt
3,33821518
asked 14 hours ago
daviddavid
785
add a comment |
If I file my income tax on April 15th and plan to pay with a check, it will take a few days for the check to be delivered. Will I face interest and penalties for those few days for the check in the mailing system?
united-states income-tax
edited 1 hour ago
Ben Voigt
3,33821518
asked 14 hours ago
daviddavid
785
If I file my income tax on April 15th and plan to pay with a check, it will take a few days for the check to be delivered. Will I face interest and penalties for those few days for the check in the mailing system?
united-states income-tax
united-states income-tax
edited 1 hour ago
Ben Voigt
3,33821518
asked 14 hours ago
daviddavid
785
edited 1 hour ago
Ben Voigt
3,33821518
asked 14 hours ago
daviddavid
785
edited 1 hour ago
Ben Voigt
3,33821518
edited 1 hour ago
Ben Voigt
3,33821518
edited 1 hour ago
Ben Voigt
3,33821518
3,33821518
asked 14 hours ago
daviddavid
785
asked 14 hours ago
daviddavid
785
asked 14 hours ago
daviddavid
785
785
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
When sending a tax return to the IRS by mail you need to have the envelope post-marked by 15 April. The fact it may take a week or more for them to receive it, open it, and process the return and check is not important and doesn't cause you to owe interest or penalties.
When US mail was the only way to file, some post offices stayed open until midnight for those last minute filers. If you are going to wait that long to take it to the post-office before they close on the 15th. mDon't drop it in a box on the street, or in front of your house.
Those who are filing electronically need to push the button before midnight on the 15th.
answered 14 hours ago
mhoran_psprepmhoran_psprep
69.9k897176
1
I will be filling it electronically, but I will be sending the check by mail
– david
14 hours ago
6
The same applies; the check mailing just has to be postmarked by the deadline.
– chepner
14 hours ago
20
Note that it has to be the US Postal Service. If you use a private company (eg, FedEx or UPS), then the IRS has to receive it by April 15th.
– Teepeemm
13 hours ago
A week? Are you on the alternate Earth where the IRS is fast this time of year?
– Harper
12 hours ago
7
@Harper My experience is that local, state, and federal tax authorities cash checks for taxes owed within a week to ten days after me mailing them. Issuing a refund can easily take a month or longer ...
– njuffa
12 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
You must fully pay or overpay by April 15.
A postmark is good enough if it is sent by US Mail (which it has to be anyway since it goes to a PO box). If you're mailing past about April 8, make sure it gets a postmark (not everything does). I recommend handing it to a counter.
If you are not ready to file, you can just pay using Form 4868, which is the correct payment slip and also grants a filing extension*. I like to overpay by a margin just in case I missed something; IRS is very reliable about giving refunds.
* The 4868 filing extension is fairly meaningless. If you still owe after April 15, you're still in trouble. If IRS owes you, the penalty for late filing is $0. The only other penalties are
- you don't get your refund until you file, obviously
- After too long, electronic tax services like TurboTax stop supporting that tax year and you must then hand file.
answered 12 hours ago
HarperHarper
25k63789
1
Are you sure about that last point. I use H&R Block's software, and I know it asks me a question related to late filing at some point in the wizard; I always assumed that meant it supported doing so.
– Dan Neely
9 hours ago
Yeah, what? You can absolutely file for an extension in April, then use tax software from the likes of TurboTax and H&R Block to file your return before October 15th, whether you owe or not.
– Zach Lipton
9 hours ago
@DanNeely I never meant to say TurboTax et.al. would lock you out on April 16. Heck, 4868 filers and those overseas officially have til October 15 (but that is not an extension to pay.) But the companies cut you off if you push it too far, typically less than a year. They won't help with 2017 taxes or 2015, which you can still file and get a refund. I had occasion to file 2 years late (the numbers were waiting on a Tax Court verdict on the previous year's filing).
– Harper
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "93"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmoney.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f107578%2fhow-long-do-i-have-to-send-my-income-tax-payment-to-the-irs%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
When sending a tax return to the IRS by mail you need to have the envelope post-marked by 15 April. The fact it may take a week or more for them to receive it, open it, and process the return and check is not important and doesn't cause you to owe interest or penalties.
When US mail was the only way to file, some post offices stayed open until midnight for those last minute filers. If you are going to wait that long to take it to the post-office before they close on the 15th. mDon't drop it in a box on the street, or in front of your house.
Those who are filing electronically need to push the button before midnight on the 15th.
answered 14 hours ago
mhoran_psprepmhoran_psprep
69.9k897176
1
I will be filling it electronically, but I will be sending the check by mail
– david
14 hours ago
6
The same applies; the check mailing just has to be postmarked by the deadline.
– chepner
14 hours ago
20
Note that it has to be the US Postal Service. If you use a private company (eg, FedEx or UPS), then the IRS has to receive it by April 15th.
– Teepeemm
13 hours ago
A week? Are you on the alternate Earth where the IRS is fast this time of year?
– Harper
12 hours ago
7
@Harper My experience is that local, state, and federal tax authorities cash checks for taxes owed within a week to ten days after me mailing them. Issuing a refund can easily take a month or longer ...
– njuffa
12 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
When sending a tax return to the IRS by mail you need to have the envelope post-marked by 15 April. The fact it may take a week or more for them to receive it, open it, and process the return and check is not important and doesn't cause you to owe interest or penalties.
When US mail was the only way to file, some post offices stayed open until midnight for those last minute filers. If you are going to wait that long to take it to the post-office before they close on the 15th. mDon't drop it in a box on the street, or in front of your house.
Those who are filing electronically need to push the button before midnight on the 15th.
answered 14 hours ago
mhoran_psprepmhoran_psprep
69.9k897176
1
I will be filling it electronically, but I will be sending the check by mail
– david
14 hours ago
6
The same applies; the check mailing just has to be postmarked by the deadline.
– chepner
14 hours ago
20
Note that it has to be the US Postal Service. If you use a private company (eg, FedEx or UPS), then the IRS has to receive it by April 15th.
– Teepeemm
13 hours ago
A week? Are you on the alternate Earth where the IRS is fast this time of year?
– Harper
12 hours ago
7
@Harper My experience is that local, state, and federal tax authorities cash checks for taxes owed within a week to ten days after me mailing them. Issuing a refund can easily take a month or longer ...
– njuffa
12 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
When sending a tax return to the IRS by mail you need to have the envelope post-marked by 15 April. The fact it may take a week or more for them to receive it, open it, and process the return and check is not important and doesn't cause you to owe interest or penalties.
When US mail was the only way to file, some post offices stayed open until midnight for those last minute filers. If you are going to wait that long to take it to the post-office before they close on the 15th. mDon't drop it in a box on the street, or in front of your house.
Those who are filing electronically need to push the button before midnight on the 15th.
answered 14 hours ago
mhoran_psprepmhoran_psprep
69.9k897176
When sending a tax return to the IRS by mail you need to have the envelope post-marked by 15 April. The fact it may take a week or more for them to receive it, open it, and process the return and check is not important and doesn't cause you to owe interest or penalties.
When US mail was the only way to file, some post offices stayed open until midnight for those last minute filers. If you are going to wait that long to take it to the post-office before they close on the 15th. mDon't drop it in a box on the street, or in front of your house.
Those who are filing electronically need to push the button before midnight on the 15th.
answered 14 hours ago
mhoran_psprepmhoran_psprep
69.9k897176
answered 14 hours ago
mhoran_psprepmhoran_psprep
69.9k897176
answered 14 hours ago
mhoran_psprepmhoran_psprep
69.9k897176
answered 14 hours ago
mhoran_psprepmhoran_psprep
69.9k897176
69.9k897176
1
I will be filling it electronically, but I will be sending the check by mail
– david
14 hours ago
6
The same applies; the check mailing just has to be postmarked by the deadline.
– chepner
14 hours ago
20
Note that it has to be the US Postal Service. If you use a private company (eg, FedEx or UPS), then the IRS has to receive it by April 15th.
– Teepeemm
13 hours ago
A week? Are you on the alternate Earth where the IRS is fast this time of year?
– Harper
12 hours ago
7
@Harper My experience is that local, state, and federal tax authorities cash checks for taxes owed within a week to ten days after me mailing them. Issuing a refund can easily take a month or longer ...
– njuffa
12 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
1
I will be filling it electronically, but I will be sending the check by mail
– david
14 hours ago
6
The same applies; the check mailing just has to be postmarked by the deadline.
– chepner
14 hours ago
20
Note that it has to be the US Postal Service. If you use a private company (eg, FedEx or UPS), then the IRS has to receive it by April 15th.
– Teepeemm
13 hours ago
A week? Are you on the alternate Earth where the IRS is fast this time of year?
– Harper
12 hours ago
7
@Harper My experience is that local, state, and federal tax authorities cash checks for taxes owed within a week to ten days after me mailing them. Issuing a refund can easily take a month or longer ...
– njuffa
12 hours ago
1
1
I will be filling it electronically, but I will be sending the check by mail
– david
14 hours ago
I will be filling it electronically, but I will be sending the check by mail
– david
14 hours ago
6
6
The same applies; the check mailing just has to be postmarked by the deadline.
– chepner
14 hours ago
The same applies; the check mailing just has to be postmarked by the deadline.
– chepner
14 hours ago
20
20
Note that it has to be the US Postal Service. If you use a private company (eg, FedEx or UPS), then the IRS has to receive it by April 15th.
– Teepeemm
13 hours ago
Note that it has to be the US Postal Service. If you use a private company (eg, FedEx or UPS), then the IRS has to receive it by April 15th.
– Teepeemm
13 hours ago
A week? Are you on the alternate Earth where the IRS is fast this time of year?
– Harper
12 hours ago
A week? Are you on the alternate Earth where the IRS is fast this time of year?
– Harper
12 hours ago
7
7
@Harper My experience is that local, state, and federal tax authorities cash checks for taxes owed within a week to ten days after me mailing them. Issuing a refund can easily take a month or longer ...
– njuffa
12 hours ago
@Harper My experience is that local, state, and federal tax authorities cash checks for taxes owed within a week to ten days after me mailing them. Issuing a refund can easily take a month or longer ...
– njuffa
12 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
You must fully pay or overpay by April 15.
A postmark is good enough if it is sent by US Mail (which it has to be anyway since it goes to a PO box). If you're mailing past about April 8, make sure it gets a postmark (not everything does). I recommend handing it to a counter.
If you are not ready to file, you can just pay using Form 4868, which is the correct payment slip and also grants a filing extension*. I like to overpay by a margin just in case I missed something; IRS is very reliable about giving refunds.
* The 4868 filing extension is fairly meaningless. If you still owe after April 15, you're still in trouble. If IRS owes you, the penalty for late filing is $0. The only other penalties are
- you don't get your refund until you file, obviously
- After too long, electronic tax services like TurboTax stop supporting that tax year and you must then hand file.
answered 12 hours ago
HarperHarper
25k63789
1
Are you sure about that last point. I use H&R Block's software, and I know it asks me a question related to late filing at some point in the wizard; I always assumed that meant it supported doing so.
– Dan Neely
9 hours ago
Yeah, what? You can absolutely file for an extension in April, then use tax software from the likes of TurboTax and H&R Block to file your return before October 15th, whether you owe or not.
– Zach Lipton
9 hours ago
@DanNeely I never meant to say TurboTax et.al. would lock you out on April 16. Heck, 4868 filers and those overseas officially have til October 15 (but that is not an extension to pay.) But the companies cut you off if you push it too far, typically less than a year. They won't help with 2017 taxes or 2015, which you can still file and get a refund. I had occasion to file 2 years late (the numbers were waiting on a Tax Court verdict on the previous year's filing).
– Harper
8 hours ago
add a comment |
You must fully pay or overpay by April 15.
A postmark is good enough if it is sent by US Mail (which it has to be anyway since it goes to a PO box). If you're mailing past about April 8, make sure it gets a postmark (not everything does). I recommend handing it to a counter.
If you are not ready to file, you can just pay using Form 4868, which is the correct payment slip and also grants a filing extension*. I like to overpay by a margin just in case I missed something; IRS is very reliable about giving refunds.
* The 4868 filing extension is fairly meaningless. If you still owe after April 15, you're still in trouble. If IRS owes you, the penalty for late filing is $0. The only other penalties are
- you don't get your refund until you file, obviously
- After too long, electronic tax services like TurboTax stop supporting that tax year and you must then hand file.
answered 12 hours ago
HarperHarper
25k63789
1
Are you sure about that last point. I use H&R Block's software, and I know it asks me a question related to late filing at some point in the wizard; I always assumed that meant it supported doing so.
– Dan Neely
9 hours ago
Yeah, what? You can absolutely file for an extension in April, then use tax software from the likes of TurboTax and H&R Block to file your return before October 15th, whether you owe or not.
– Zach Lipton
9 hours ago
@DanNeely I never meant to say TurboTax et.al. would lock you out on April 16. Heck, 4868 filers and those overseas officially have til October 15 (but that is not an extension to pay.) But the companies cut you off if you push it too far, typically less than a year. They won't help with 2017 taxes or 2015, which you can still file and get a refund. I had occasion to file 2 years late (the numbers were waiting on a Tax Court verdict on the previous year's filing).
– Harper
8 hours ago
add a comment |
You must fully pay or overpay by April 15.
A postmark is good enough if it is sent by US Mail (which it has to be anyway since it goes to a PO box). If you're mailing past about April 8, make sure it gets a postmark (not everything does). I recommend handing it to a counter.
If you are not ready to file, you can just pay using Form 4868, which is the correct payment slip and also grants a filing extension*. I like to overpay by a margin just in case I missed something; IRS is very reliable about giving refunds.
* The 4868 filing extension is fairly meaningless. If you still owe after April 15, you're still in trouble. If IRS owes you, the penalty for late filing is $0. The only other penalties are
- you don't get your refund until you file, obviously
- After too long, electronic tax services like TurboTax stop supporting that tax year and you must then hand file.
answered 12 hours ago
HarperHarper
25k63789
You must fully pay or overpay by April 15.
A postmark is good enough if it is sent by US Mail (which it has to be anyway since it goes to a PO box). If you're mailing past about April 8, make sure it gets a postmark (not everything does). I recommend handing it to a counter.
If you are not ready to file, you can just pay using Form 4868, which is the correct payment slip and also grants a filing extension*. I like to overpay by a margin just in case I missed something; IRS is very reliable about giving refunds.
* The 4868 filing extension is fairly meaningless. If you still owe after April 15, you're still in trouble. If IRS owes you, the penalty for late filing is $0. The only other penalties are
- you don't get your refund until you file, obviously
- After too long, electronic tax services like TurboTax stop supporting that tax year and you must then hand file.
answered 12 hours ago
HarperHarper
25k63789
edited 9 hours ago
answered 12 hours ago
HarperHarper
25k63789
answered 12 hours ago
HarperHarper
25k63789
answered 12 hours ago
HarperHarper
25k63789
25k63789
1
Are you sure about that last point. I use H&R Block's software, and I know it asks me a question related to late filing at some point in the wizard; I always assumed that meant it supported doing so.
– Dan Neely
9 hours ago
Yeah, what? You can absolutely file for an extension in April, then use tax software from the likes of TurboTax and H&R Block to file your return before October 15th, whether you owe or not.
– Zach Lipton
9 hours ago
@DanNeely I never meant to say TurboTax et.al. would lock you out on April 16. Heck, 4868 filers and those overseas officially have til October 15 (but that is not an extension to pay.) But the companies cut you off if you push it too far, typically less than a year. They won't help with 2017 taxes or 2015, which you can still file and get a refund. I had occasion to file 2 years late (the numbers were waiting on a Tax Court verdict on the previous year's filing).
– Harper
8 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Are you sure about that last point. I use H&R Block's software, and I know it asks me a question related to late filing at some point in the wizard; I always assumed that meant it supported doing so.
– Dan Neely
9 hours ago
Yeah, what? You can absolutely file for an extension in April, then use tax software from the likes of TurboTax and H&R Block to file your return before October 15th, whether you owe or not.
– Zach Lipton
9 hours ago
@DanNeely I never meant to say TurboTax et.al. would lock you out on April 16. Heck, 4868 filers and those overseas officially have til October 15 (but that is not an extension to pay.) But the companies cut you off if you push it too far, typically less than a year. They won't help with 2017 taxes or 2015, which you can still file and get a refund. I had occasion to file 2 years late (the numbers were waiting on a Tax Court verdict on the previous year's filing).
– Harper
8 hours ago
1
1
Are you sure about that last point. I use H&R Block's software, and I know it asks me a question related to late filing at some point in the wizard; I always assumed that meant it supported doing so.
– Dan Neely
9 hours ago
Are you sure about that last point. I use H&R Block's software, and I know it asks me a question related to late filing at some point in the wizard; I always assumed that meant it supported doing so.
– Dan Neely
9 hours ago
Yeah, what? You can absolutely file for an extension in April, then use tax software from the likes of TurboTax and H&R Block to file your return before October 15th, whether you owe or not.
– Zach Lipton
9 hours ago
Yeah, what? You can absolutely file for an extension in April, then use tax software from the likes of TurboTax and H&R Block to file your return before October 15th, whether you owe or not.
– Zach Lipton
9 hours ago
@DanNeely I never meant to say TurboTax et.al. would lock you out on April 16. Heck, 4868 filers and those overseas officially have til October 15 (but that is not an extension to pay.) But the companies cut you off if you push it too far, typically less than a year. They won't help with 2017 taxes or 2015, which you can still file and get a refund. I had occasion to file 2 years late (the numbers were waiting on a Tax Court verdict on the previous year's filing).
– Harper
8 hours ago
@DanNeely I never meant to say TurboTax et.al. would lock you out on April 16. Heck, 4868 filers and those overseas officially have til October 15 (but that is not an extension to pay.) But the companies cut you off if you push it too far, typically less than a year. They won't help with 2017 taxes or 2015, which you can still file and get a refund. I had occasion to file 2 years late (the numbers were waiting on a Tax Court verdict on the previous year's filing).
– Harper
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Personal Finance & Money Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmoney.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f107578%2fhow-long-do-i-have-to-send-my-income-tax-payment-to-the-irs%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
