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Who said what about *meanings*?
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?Canonical Papers on ContextDo mainstream philosophers believe that Wittgenstein “solved” philosophy?Wittgenstein on names and paradigmsHow do debates about meaning affect the status of personal religious beliefs?How do we understand and fix reference for scientific units of measure?Certain questions on Derrida's conception of languange?Is Ludwig Wittgenstein connected to post-structuralism?Are there many minds or is there only one?Wittgenstein and the meaning of intermediate casesPhilosophers who did not think that language is more special than cognition as a whole
I don’t claim to have any original ideas about philosophy, only that I understand some things about many of the controversies, and that my scholastic record indicates that I understand them quite well. I’m here to learn about what works better or worse for you guys with regard to understanding philosophical perspectives. I may disagree on philosophical and pedagogical grounds about what ‘understanding’ is or what it means to each of you, but I’m here to learn what I might have overlooked in the philosophical literature, so I appreciate any support that might become available. I understand that what’s acceptable scholarship for these boards is judged according to an expert consensus of the opinions of expert moderators, and I bow to their authority. I trust that they’ll let me know if I stray out of bounds.
So, here are some facts about philosophy:
In a 2003 obituary, Anna Sherrat described one of my many philosophy heroes, Donald Davidson, as “one of the greatest American philosophers.”
She did an excellent job of summarizing one of the perspectives of one of the most respected philosophers of the 20th century, as follows:
[W]e can ascribe beliefs to a speaker only on the basis of prior assumptions about meaning, and vice versa…there will be many different assignments of meaning and belief that fit equally well with a given speaker’s behaviour.
I understand that Wittgenstein transformed the field of philosophy of language with his insight that while objective definitions consists of language, we understand linguistic utterances by interpreting subjective meanings, and we do that according to our individual histories of learning how those utterances were used by the people we’ve known to use them. In fewer words, meaning derives from usage.
As he wrote in Philosophical Investigations, 1953, “the meaning of a word is its use in the language” (Quoted here by Anat Biletzki).
He invented the term “language games” to refer to the many different ways that language may be used.
In his IEP article on philosophy of language, Michael P. Wolf reflects a consensus in the field that Wittgenstein’s theory, developed over half a century ago, has yet to be superseded:
[I]t can be safely said that Wittgenstein rejected a picture of language as a detached, logical sort of picturing of the facts and inserted a concern for its pragmatic dimensions. One cannot look at the representational dimension of language alone and expect to understand what meaning is. [https://www.iep.utm.edu/lang-phi/#SH3b]
My question is: Does anyone here know of any philosophy book or article (published in that last fifty years), which offers cogent criticism to refute or weaken these theses?
philosophy-of-language contemporary-philosophy higher-order-thinking
|
show 6 more comments
I don’t claim to have any original ideas about philosophy, only that I understand some things about many of the controversies, and that my scholastic record indicates that I understand them quite well. I’m here to learn about what works better or worse for you guys with regard to understanding philosophical perspectives. I may disagree on philosophical and pedagogical grounds about what ‘understanding’ is or what it means to each of you, but I’m here to learn what I might have overlooked in the philosophical literature, so I appreciate any support that might become available. I understand that what’s acceptable scholarship for these boards is judged according to an expert consensus of the opinions of expert moderators, and I bow to their authority. I trust that they’ll let me know if I stray out of bounds.
So, here are some facts about philosophy:
In a 2003 obituary, Anna Sherrat described one of my many philosophy heroes, Donald Davidson, as “one of the greatest American philosophers.”
She did an excellent job of summarizing one of the perspectives of one of the most respected philosophers of the 20th century, as follows:
[W]e can ascribe beliefs to a speaker only on the basis of prior assumptions about meaning, and vice versa…there will be many different assignments of meaning and belief that fit equally well with a given speaker’s behaviour.
I understand that Wittgenstein transformed the field of philosophy of language with his insight that while objective definitions consists of language, we understand linguistic utterances by interpreting subjective meanings, and we do that according to our individual histories of learning how those utterances were used by the people we’ve known to use them. In fewer words, meaning derives from usage.
As he wrote in Philosophical Investigations, 1953, “the meaning of a word is its use in the language” (Quoted here by Anat Biletzki).
He invented the term “language games” to refer to the many different ways that language may be used.
In his IEP article on philosophy of language, Michael P. Wolf reflects a consensus in the field that Wittgenstein’s theory, developed over half a century ago, has yet to be superseded:
[I]t can be safely said that Wittgenstein rejected a picture of language as a detached, logical sort of picturing of the facts and inserted a concern for its pragmatic dimensions. One cannot look at the representational dimension of language alone and expect to understand what meaning is. [https://www.iep.utm.edu/lang-phi/#SH3b]
My question is: Does anyone here know of any philosophy book or article (published in that last fifty years), which offers cogent criticism to refute or weaken these theses?
philosophy-of-language contemporary-philosophy higher-order-thinking
How does the IEP quote on Wittgenstein "reflect a consensus in the field that Wittgenstein’s theory, developed over half a century ago, has yet to be superseded"? I don't see it.
– Eliran
3 hours ago
@Eliran I'm guessing that this is because W's theory goes beyond the minimalism of D's theory by adding modal imagination to our concept of meaning.
– Nick R
2 hours ago
"Refute" is a strong word. Are you asking about criticisms.
– Nick R
2 hours ago
@NickR I don't see how that says anything about "consensus in the field".
– Eliran
2 hours ago
@NickR, good point, thanks...I'll edit...
– Rortian
1 hour ago
|
show 6 more comments
I don’t claim to have any original ideas about philosophy, only that I understand some things about many of the controversies, and that my scholastic record indicates that I understand them quite well. I’m here to learn about what works better or worse for you guys with regard to understanding philosophical perspectives. I may disagree on philosophical and pedagogical grounds about what ‘understanding’ is or what it means to each of you, but I’m here to learn what I might have overlooked in the philosophical literature, so I appreciate any support that might become available. I understand that what’s acceptable scholarship for these boards is judged according to an expert consensus of the opinions of expert moderators, and I bow to their authority. I trust that they’ll let me know if I stray out of bounds.
So, here are some facts about philosophy:
In a 2003 obituary, Anna Sherrat described one of my many philosophy heroes, Donald Davidson, as “one of the greatest American philosophers.”
She did an excellent job of summarizing one of the perspectives of one of the most respected philosophers of the 20th century, as follows:
[W]e can ascribe beliefs to a speaker only on the basis of prior assumptions about meaning, and vice versa…there will be many different assignments of meaning and belief that fit equally well with a given speaker’s behaviour.
I understand that Wittgenstein transformed the field of philosophy of language with his insight that while objective definitions consists of language, we understand linguistic utterances by interpreting subjective meanings, and we do that according to our individual histories of learning how those utterances were used by the people we’ve known to use them. In fewer words, meaning derives from usage.
As he wrote in Philosophical Investigations, 1953, “the meaning of a word is its use in the language” (Quoted here by Anat Biletzki).
He invented the term “language games” to refer to the many different ways that language may be used.
In his IEP article on philosophy of language, Michael P. Wolf reflects a consensus in the field that Wittgenstein’s theory, developed over half a century ago, has yet to be superseded:
[I]t can be safely said that Wittgenstein rejected a picture of language as a detached, logical sort of picturing of the facts and inserted a concern for its pragmatic dimensions. One cannot look at the representational dimension of language alone and expect to understand what meaning is. [https://www.iep.utm.edu/lang-phi/#SH3b]
My question is: Does anyone here know of any philosophy book or article (published in that last fifty years), which offers cogent criticism to refute or weaken these theses?
philosophy-of-language contemporary-philosophy higher-order-thinking
I don’t claim to have any original ideas about philosophy, only that I understand some things about many of the controversies, and that my scholastic record indicates that I understand them quite well. I’m here to learn about what works better or worse for you guys with regard to understanding philosophical perspectives. I may disagree on philosophical and pedagogical grounds about what ‘understanding’ is or what it means to each of you, but I’m here to learn what I might have overlooked in the philosophical literature, so I appreciate any support that might become available. I understand that what’s acceptable scholarship for these boards is judged according to an expert consensus of the opinions of expert moderators, and I bow to their authority. I trust that they’ll let me know if I stray out of bounds.
So, here are some facts about philosophy:
In a 2003 obituary, Anna Sherrat described one of my many philosophy heroes, Donald Davidson, as “one of the greatest American philosophers.”
She did an excellent job of summarizing one of the perspectives of one of the most respected philosophers of the 20th century, as follows:
[W]e can ascribe beliefs to a speaker only on the basis of prior assumptions about meaning, and vice versa…there will be many different assignments of meaning and belief that fit equally well with a given speaker’s behaviour.
I understand that Wittgenstein transformed the field of philosophy of language with his insight that while objective definitions consists of language, we understand linguistic utterances by interpreting subjective meanings, and we do that according to our individual histories of learning how those utterances were used by the people we’ve known to use them. In fewer words, meaning derives from usage.
As he wrote in Philosophical Investigations, 1953, “the meaning of a word is its use in the language” (Quoted here by Anat Biletzki).
He invented the term “language games” to refer to the many different ways that language may be used.
In his IEP article on philosophy of language, Michael P. Wolf reflects a consensus in the field that Wittgenstein’s theory, developed over half a century ago, has yet to be superseded:
[I]t can be safely said that Wittgenstein rejected a picture of language as a detached, logical sort of picturing of the facts and inserted a concern for its pragmatic dimensions. One cannot look at the representational dimension of language alone and expect to understand what meaning is. [https://www.iep.utm.edu/lang-phi/#SH3b]
My question is: Does anyone here know of any philosophy book or article (published in that last fifty years), which offers cogent criticism to refute or weaken these theses?
philosophy-of-language contemporary-philosophy higher-order-thinking
philosophy-of-language contemporary-philosophy higher-order-thinking
edited 1 hour ago
Rortian
asked 4 hours ago
RortianRortian
15611
15611
How does the IEP quote on Wittgenstein "reflect a consensus in the field that Wittgenstein’s theory, developed over half a century ago, has yet to be superseded"? I don't see it.
– Eliran
3 hours ago
@Eliran I'm guessing that this is because W's theory goes beyond the minimalism of D's theory by adding modal imagination to our concept of meaning.
– Nick R
2 hours ago
"Refute" is a strong word. Are you asking about criticisms.
– Nick R
2 hours ago
@NickR I don't see how that says anything about "consensus in the field".
– Eliran
2 hours ago
@NickR, good point, thanks...I'll edit...
– Rortian
1 hour ago
|
show 6 more comments
How does the IEP quote on Wittgenstein "reflect a consensus in the field that Wittgenstein’s theory, developed over half a century ago, has yet to be superseded"? I don't see it.
– Eliran
3 hours ago
@Eliran I'm guessing that this is because W's theory goes beyond the minimalism of D's theory by adding modal imagination to our concept of meaning.
– Nick R
2 hours ago
"Refute" is a strong word. Are you asking about criticisms.
– Nick R
2 hours ago
@NickR I don't see how that says anything about "consensus in the field".
– Eliran
2 hours ago
@NickR, good point, thanks...I'll edit...
– Rortian
1 hour ago
How does the IEP quote on Wittgenstein "reflect a consensus in the field that Wittgenstein’s theory, developed over half a century ago, has yet to be superseded"? I don't see it.
– Eliran
3 hours ago
How does the IEP quote on Wittgenstein "reflect a consensus in the field that Wittgenstein’s theory, developed over half a century ago, has yet to be superseded"? I don't see it.
– Eliran
3 hours ago
@Eliran I'm guessing that this is because W's theory goes beyond the minimalism of D's theory by adding modal imagination to our concept of meaning.
– Nick R
2 hours ago
@Eliran I'm guessing that this is because W's theory goes beyond the minimalism of D's theory by adding modal imagination to our concept of meaning.
– Nick R
2 hours ago
"Refute" is a strong word. Are you asking about criticisms.
– Nick R
2 hours ago
"Refute" is a strong word. Are you asking about criticisms.
– Nick R
2 hours ago
@NickR I don't see how that says anything about "consensus in the field".
– Eliran
2 hours ago
@NickR I don't see how that says anything about "consensus in the field".
– Eliran
2 hours ago
@NickR, good point, thanks...I'll edit...
– Rortian
1 hour ago
@NickR, good point, thanks...I'll edit...
– Rortian
1 hour ago
|
show 6 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
Colin McGinn, in his book The Philosophy of Language, discusses at least four criticisms of Davidson's theory.
Is it enough to say that knowledge of meaning is knowledge of truth conditions - especially when we restrict ourselves homophonic statements of truth conditions? Can't we ask what this knowledge of truth conditions itself involves?
We need to assign more than reference to a name if we are to capture its full meaning. We need something like sense. But Tarski's semantic apparatus does not specify sense. How then can it function as a theory of meaning. At best it is a theory of reference.
Davidson's theory provides no explanation of how words come to have semantic properties. The axioms say things like "'Hesperus' denotes Hesperus", but nothing in the theory tells us how it is that a word like "Hesperus" acquires reference. Similarly for predicates and satisfaction. The axioms do not explain what gives marks and sounds the semantic features they have.
Davidson distinguishes sharply between giving logical forms for sentences and giving analysis of individual words. But how robust is that distinction? The intuitive idea that Davidson is working with is that in attributing logical forms we do not break words down into parts, but in lexical analyses we do. [Yet] Davidson's own theory of adverbs construes sentences containing adverbs as quantifications over events with predicates of events. The logical form here is quite different from the superficial syntax of the sentence. The paraphrase finds hidden semantic complexity in adverbs. Why isn't this a case of lexical analysis?
Thanks for this. I'd be happy to think a bit about it, but I'd need to have the words that Davidson and Colin used in order to deal with the meanings of the criticisms (and I have other priorities...!), but if you want to work with me we can figure this out. I have some questions about your questions, though. Is it enough to say that knowledge of meaning is knowledge of truth Does this use of the term ‘knowledge’ refer to uncertain knowledge? Can't we ask what this knowledge of truth conditions itself involves? Umm, why wouldn’t we? Preconceptions don’t work in my perspective.
– Rortian
1 hour ago
2.We need to assign more than reference to a name if we are to capture its full meaning. We need something like sense. But Tarski's semantic apparatus does not specify sense. How then can it function as a theory of meaning. At best it is a theory of reference. Does "full meaning" refer to objective meaning? In the absence of "full" objectivity, I'm not clear that Davidson would dispute this...are you clear about what Davidson would think? Unfortunately, he won't be able to tell us...we can be fairly certain and quite correct about that...
– Rortian
1 hour ago
3. Umm, didn't Davidson accept Wittgenstein's approach? Does McGinn agree?
– Rortian
1 hour ago
4.Davidson distinguishes sharply between giving logical forms for sentences and giving analysis of individual words. But how robust is that distinction? Didn't Wittgenstein develop the theory of language games to overcome the insuperable difficulty of demonstrating that words carry meanings? Utterances occur in sociolinguistic contexts, right? They're interpreted - it seemed to some people and still does - according the history of learning of whoever connotes them...how do you assess how "superficial" syntax is or how "complex" the semantics are...why does that matter?
– Rortian
1 hour ago
Is McGinn attempting to refute pragmatism?? Are you aware of his agenda? If you're willing to think about my questions and respond to them with your own ideas then you could drop me a line at Higher Order Thinking.
– Rortian
1 hour ago
|
show 1 more comment
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1 Answer
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Colin McGinn, in his book The Philosophy of Language, discusses at least four criticisms of Davidson's theory.
Is it enough to say that knowledge of meaning is knowledge of truth conditions - especially when we restrict ourselves homophonic statements of truth conditions? Can't we ask what this knowledge of truth conditions itself involves?
We need to assign more than reference to a name if we are to capture its full meaning. We need something like sense. But Tarski's semantic apparatus does not specify sense. How then can it function as a theory of meaning. At best it is a theory of reference.
Davidson's theory provides no explanation of how words come to have semantic properties. The axioms say things like "'Hesperus' denotes Hesperus", but nothing in the theory tells us how it is that a word like "Hesperus" acquires reference. Similarly for predicates and satisfaction. The axioms do not explain what gives marks and sounds the semantic features they have.
Davidson distinguishes sharply between giving logical forms for sentences and giving analysis of individual words. But how robust is that distinction? The intuitive idea that Davidson is working with is that in attributing logical forms we do not break words down into parts, but in lexical analyses we do. [Yet] Davidson's own theory of adverbs construes sentences containing adverbs as quantifications over events with predicates of events. The logical form here is quite different from the superficial syntax of the sentence. The paraphrase finds hidden semantic complexity in adverbs. Why isn't this a case of lexical analysis?
Thanks for this. I'd be happy to think a bit about it, but I'd need to have the words that Davidson and Colin used in order to deal with the meanings of the criticisms (and I have other priorities...!), but if you want to work with me we can figure this out. I have some questions about your questions, though. Is it enough to say that knowledge of meaning is knowledge of truth Does this use of the term ‘knowledge’ refer to uncertain knowledge? Can't we ask what this knowledge of truth conditions itself involves? Umm, why wouldn’t we? Preconceptions don’t work in my perspective.
– Rortian
1 hour ago
2.We need to assign more than reference to a name if we are to capture its full meaning. We need something like sense. But Tarski's semantic apparatus does not specify sense. How then can it function as a theory of meaning. At best it is a theory of reference. Does "full meaning" refer to objective meaning? In the absence of "full" objectivity, I'm not clear that Davidson would dispute this...are you clear about what Davidson would think? Unfortunately, he won't be able to tell us...we can be fairly certain and quite correct about that...
– Rortian
1 hour ago
3. Umm, didn't Davidson accept Wittgenstein's approach? Does McGinn agree?
– Rortian
1 hour ago
4.Davidson distinguishes sharply between giving logical forms for sentences and giving analysis of individual words. But how robust is that distinction? Didn't Wittgenstein develop the theory of language games to overcome the insuperable difficulty of demonstrating that words carry meanings? Utterances occur in sociolinguistic contexts, right? They're interpreted - it seemed to some people and still does - according the history of learning of whoever connotes them...how do you assess how "superficial" syntax is or how "complex" the semantics are...why does that matter?
– Rortian
1 hour ago
Is McGinn attempting to refute pragmatism?? Are you aware of his agenda? If you're willing to think about my questions and respond to them with your own ideas then you could drop me a line at Higher Order Thinking.
– Rortian
1 hour ago
|
show 1 more comment
Colin McGinn, in his book The Philosophy of Language, discusses at least four criticisms of Davidson's theory.
Is it enough to say that knowledge of meaning is knowledge of truth conditions - especially when we restrict ourselves homophonic statements of truth conditions? Can't we ask what this knowledge of truth conditions itself involves?
We need to assign more than reference to a name if we are to capture its full meaning. We need something like sense. But Tarski's semantic apparatus does not specify sense. How then can it function as a theory of meaning. At best it is a theory of reference.
Davidson's theory provides no explanation of how words come to have semantic properties. The axioms say things like "'Hesperus' denotes Hesperus", but nothing in the theory tells us how it is that a word like "Hesperus" acquires reference. Similarly for predicates and satisfaction. The axioms do not explain what gives marks and sounds the semantic features they have.
Davidson distinguishes sharply between giving logical forms for sentences and giving analysis of individual words. But how robust is that distinction? The intuitive idea that Davidson is working with is that in attributing logical forms we do not break words down into parts, but in lexical analyses we do. [Yet] Davidson's own theory of adverbs construes sentences containing adverbs as quantifications over events with predicates of events. The logical form here is quite different from the superficial syntax of the sentence. The paraphrase finds hidden semantic complexity in adverbs. Why isn't this a case of lexical analysis?
Thanks for this. I'd be happy to think a bit about it, but I'd need to have the words that Davidson and Colin used in order to deal with the meanings of the criticisms (and I have other priorities...!), but if you want to work with me we can figure this out. I have some questions about your questions, though. Is it enough to say that knowledge of meaning is knowledge of truth Does this use of the term ‘knowledge’ refer to uncertain knowledge? Can't we ask what this knowledge of truth conditions itself involves? Umm, why wouldn’t we? Preconceptions don’t work in my perspective.
– Rortian
1 hour ago
2.We need to assign more than reference to a name if we are to capture its full meaning. We need something like sense. But Tarski's semantic apparatus does not specify sense. How then can it function as a theory of meaning. At best it is a theory of reference. Does "full meaning" refer to objective meaning? In the absence of "full" objectivity, I'm not clear that Davidson would dispute this...are you clear about what Davidson would think? Unfortunately, he won't be able to tell us...we can be fairly certain and quite correct about that...
– Rortian
1 hour ago
3. Umm, didn't Davidson accept Wittgenstein's approach? Does McGinn agree?
– Rortian
1 hour ago
4.Davidson distinguishes sharply between giving logical forms for sentences and giving analysis of individual words. But how robust is that distinction? Didn't Wittgenstein develop the theory of language games to overcome the insuperable difficulty of demonstrating that words carry meanings? Utterances occur in sociolinguistic contexts, right? They're interpreted - it seemed to some people and still does - according the history of learning of whoever connotes them...how do you assess how "superficial" syntax is or how "complex" the semantics are...why does that matter?
– Rortian
1 hour ago
Is McGinn attempting to refute pragmatism?? Are you aware of his agenda? If you're willing to think about my questions and respond to them with your own ideas then you could drop me a line at Higher Order Thinking.
– Rortian
1 hour ago
|
show 1 more comment
Colin McGinn, in his book The Philosophy of Language, discusses at least four criticisms of Davidson's theory.
Is it enough to say that knowledge of meaning is knowledge of truth conditions - especially when we restrict ourselves homophonic statements of truth conditions? Can't we ask what this knowledge of truth conditions itself involves?
We need to assign more than reference to a name if we are to capture its full meaning. We need something like sense. But Tarski's semantic apparatus does not specify sense. How then can it function as a theory of meaning. At best it is a theory of reference.
Davidson's theory provides no explanation of how words come to have semantic properties. The axioms say things like "'Hesperus' denotes Hesperus", but nothing in the theory tells us how it is that a word like "Hesperus" acquires reference. Similarly for predicates and satisfaction. The axioms do not explain what gives marks and sounds the semantic features they have.
Davidson distinguishes sharply between giving logical forms for sentences and giving analysis of individual words. But how robust is that distinction? The intuitive idea that Davidson is working with is that in attributing logical forms we do not break words down into parts, but in lexical analyses we do. [Yet] Davidson's own theory of adverbs construes sentences containing adverbs as quantifications over events with predicates of events. The logical form here is quite different from the superficial syntax of the sentence. The paraphrase finds hidden semantic complexity in adverbs. Why isn't this a case of lexical analysis?
Colin McGinn, in his book The Philosophy of Language, discusses at least four criticisms of Davidson's theory.
Is it enough to say that knowledge of meaning is knowledge of truth conditions - especially when we restrict ourselves homophonic statements of truth conditions? Can't we ask what this knowledge of truth conditions itself involves?
We need to assign more than reference to a name if we are to capture its full meaning. We need something like sense. But Tarski's semantic apparatus does not specify sense. How then can it function as a theory of meaning. At best it is a theory of reference.
Davidson's theory provides no explanation of how words come to have semantic properties. The axioms say things like "'Hesperus' denotes Hesperus", but nothing in the theory tells us how it is that a word like "Hesperus" acquires reference. Similarly for predicates and satisfaction. The axioms do not explain what gives marks and sounds the semantic features they have.
Davidson distinguishes sharply between giving logical forms for sentences and giving analysis of individual words. But how robust is that distinction? The intuitive idea that Davidson is working with is that in attributing logical forms we do not break words down into parts, but in lexical analyses we do. [Yet] Davidson's own theory of adverbs construes sentences containing adverbs as quantifications over events with predicates of events. The logical form here is quite different from the superficial syntax of the sentence. The paraphrase finds hidden semantic complexity in adverbs. Why isn't this a case of lexical analysis?
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
Nick RNick R
2,967926
2,967926
Thanks for this. I'd be happy to think a bit about it, but I'd need to have the words that Davidson and Colin used in order to deal with the meanings of the criticisms (and I have other priorities...!), but if you want to work with me we can figure this out. I have some questions about your questions, though. Is it enough to say that knowledge of meaning is knowledge of truth Does this use of the term ‘knowledge’ refer to uncertain knowledge? Can't we ask what this knowledge of truth conditions itself involves? Umm, why wouldn’t we? Preconceptions don’t work in my perspective.
– Rortian
1 hour ago
2.We need to assign more than reference to a name if we are to capture its full meaning. We need something like sense. But Tarski's semantic apparatus does not specify sense. How then can it function as a theory of meaning. At best it is a theory of reference. Does "full meaning" refer to objective meaning? In the absence of "full" objectivity, I'm not clear that Davidson would dispute this...are you clear about what Davidson would think? Unfortunately, he won't be able to tell us...we can be fairly certain and quite correct about that...
– Rortian
1 hour ago
3. Umm, didn't Davidson accept Wittgenstein's approach? Does McGinn agree?
– Rortian
1 hour ago
4.Davidson distinguishes sharply between giving logical forms for sentences and giving analysis of individual words. But how robust is that distinction? Didn't Wittgenstein develop the theory of language games to overcome the insuperable difficulty of demonstrating that words carry meanings? Utterances occur in sociolinguistic contexts, right? They're interpreted - it seemed to some people and still does - according the history of learning of whoever connotes them...how do you assess how "superficial" syntax is or how "complex" the semantics are...why does that matter?
– Rortian
1 hour ago
Is McGinn attempting to refute pragmatism?? Are you aware of his agenda? If you're willing to think about my questions and respond to them with your own ideas then you could drop me a line at Higher Order Thinking.
– Rortian
1 hour ago
|
show 1 more comment
Thanks for this. I'd be happy to think a bit about it, but I'd need to have the words that Davidson and Colin used in order to deal with the meanings of the criticisms (and I have other priorities...!), but if you want to work with me we can figure this out. I have some questions about your questions, though. Is it enough to say that knowledge of meaning is knowledge of truth Does this use of the term ‘knowledge’ refer to uncertain knowledge? Can't we ask what this knowledge of truth conditions itself involves? Umm, why wouldn’t we? Preconceptions don’t work in my perspective.
– Rortian
1 hour ago
2.We need to assign more than reference to a name if we are to capture its full meaning. We need something like sense. But Tarski's semantic apparatus does not specify sense. How then can it function as a theory of meaning. At best it is a theory of reference. Does "full meaning" refer to objective meaning? In the absence of "full" objectivity, I'm not clear that Davidson would dispute this...are you clear about what Davidson would think? Unfortunately, he won't be able to tell us...we can be fairly certain and quite correct about that...
– Rortian
1 hour ago
3. Umm, didn't Davidson accept Wittgenstein's approach? Does McGinn agree?
– Rortian
1 hour ago
4.Davidson distinguishes sharply between giving logical forms for sentences and giving analysis of individual words. But how robust is that distinction? Didn't Wittgenstein develop the theory of language games to overcome the insuperable difficulty of demonstrating that words carry meanings? Utterances occur in sociolinguistic contexts, right? They're interpreted - it seemed to some people and still does - according the history of learning of whoever connotes them...how do you assess how "superficial" syntax is or how "complex" the semantics are...why does that matter?
– Rortian
1 hour ago
Is McGinn attempting to refute pragmatism?? Are you aware of his agenda? If you're willing to think about my questions and respond to them with your own ideas then you could drop me a line at Higher Order Thinking.
– Rortian
1 hour ago
Thanks for this. I'd be happy to think a bit about it, but I'd need to have the words that Davidson and Colin used in order to deal with the meanings of the criticisms (and I have other priorities...!), but if you want to work with me we can figure this out. I have some questions about your questions, though. Is it enough to say that knowledge of meaning is knowledge of truth Does this use of the term ‘knowledge’ refer to uncertain knowledge? Can't we ask what this knowledge of truth conditions itself involves? Umm, why wouldn’t we? Preconceptions don’t work in my perspective.
– Rortian
1 hour ago
Thanks for this. I'd be happy to think a bit about it, but I'd need to have the words that Davidson and Colin used in order to deal with the meanings of the criticisms (and I have other priorities...!), but if you want to work with me we can figure this out. I have some questions about your questions, though. Is it enough to say that knowledge of meaning is knowledge of truth Does this use of the term ‘knowledge’ refer to uncertain knowledge? Can't we ask what this knowledge of truth conditions itself involves? Umm, why wouldn’t we? Preconceptions don’t work in my perspective.
– Rortian
1 hour ago
2.We need to assign more than reference to a name if we are to capture its full meaning. We need something like sense. But Tarski's semantic apparatus does not specify sense. How then can it function as a theory of meaning. At best it is a theory of reference. Does "full meaning" refer to objective meaning? In the absence of "full" objectivity, I'm not clear that Davidson would dispute this...are you clear about what Davidson would think? Unfortunately, he won't be able to tell us...we can be fairly certain and quite correct about that...
– Rortian
1 hour ago
2.We need to assign more than reference to a name if we are to capture its full meaning. We need something like sense. But Tarski's semantic apparatus does not specify sense. How then can it function as a theory of meaning. At best it is a theory of reference. Does "full meaning" refer to objective meaning? In the absence of "full" objectivity, I'm not clear that Davidson would dispute this...are you clear about what Davidson would think? Unfortunately, he won't be able to tell us...we can be fairly certain and quite correct about that...
– Rortian
1 hour ago
3. Umm, didn't Davidson accept Wittgenstein's approach? Does McGinn agree?
– Rortian
1 hour ago
3. Umm, didn't Davidson accept Wittgenstein's approach? Does McGinn agree?
– Rortian
1 hour ago
4.Davidson distinguishes sharply between giving logical forms for sentences and giving analysis of individual words. But how robust is that distinction? Didn't Wittgenstein develop the theory of language games to overcome the insuperable difficulty of demonstrating that words carry meanings? Utterances occur in sociolinguistic contexts, right? They're interpreted - it seemed to some people and still does - according the history of learning of whoever connotes them...how do you assess how "superficial" syntax is or how "complex" the semantics are...why does that matter?
– Rortian
1 hour ago
4.Davidson distinguishes sharply between giving logical forms for sentences and giving analysis of individual words. But how robust is that distinction? Didn't Wittgenstein develop the theory of language games to overcome the insuperable difficulty of demonstrating that words carry meanings? Utterances occur in sociolinguistic contexts, right? They're interpreted - it seemed to some people and still does - according the history of learning of whoever connotes them...how do you assess how "superficial" syntax is or how "complex" the semantics are...why does that matter?
– Rortian
1 hour ago
Is McGinn attempting to refute pragmatism?? Are you aware of his agenda? If you're willing to think about my questions and respond to them with your own ideas then you could drop me a line at Higher Order Thinking.
– Rortian
1 hour ago
Is McGinn attempting to refute pragmatism?? Are you aware of his agenda? If you're willing to think about my questions and respond to them with your own ideas then you could drop me a line at Higher Order Thinking.
– Rortian
1 hour ago
|
show 1 more comment
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How does the IEP quote on Wittgenstein "reflect a consensus in the field that Wittgenstein’s theory, developed over half a century ago, has yet to be superseded"? I don't see it.
– Eliran
3 hours ago
@Eliran I'm guessing that this is because W's theory goes beyond the minimalism of D's theory by adding modal imagination to our concept of meaning.
– Nick R
2 hours ago
"Refute" is a strong word. Are you asking about criticisms.
– Nick R
2 hours ago
@NickR I don't see how that says anything about "consensus in the field".
– Eliran
2 hours ago
@NickR, good point, thanks...I'll edit...
– Rortian
1 hour ago